We Can’t Go Back:
Interview with Mishka Shubaly
Rob Kaniuk: Mishka, you put a lot of art into the world (books, articles, music). Are your creative pursuits goal oriented, a compulsion, or is it just work?
Mishka Shubaly: The answer is yes. We talk about doing it for the love of it, writing for truth and for art and for redemption. Sadly, sometimes you’re just writing for rent. But I’d argue that even writing for rent is worthwhile. There have been many times where I was doing a record review or a little think piece or Yet Another Update On My Sobriety and thought “this is a waste of time” and then come out of it with new insight. I’ve never had that happen when I’m making a spreadsheet or something. Writing is still the best job worth hating.
RK: Dylan said of songwriting: “It took me a long time to get to do consciously what I used to be able to do unconsciously. It happens to everybody.”
Do you struggle in writing where it used to flow freely?
MS: Fucking Dylan, man. I hate when folks quote him these days because it feels like we’re rolling around in our parents’ vomit... but the truth is that his words are still pertinent because he’s so unfairly gifted (and because so little has changed in race relations in the US since he wrote ‘The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carol.’) Yes, absolutely, I struggle in writing. I was talking to a writer yesterday about how to get that crucial first draft down. I ran her through what I think is the best way to get it done. When I got down off my soapbox, she said “Wow. So that’s how you write?” And I was like “Hell no, I hardly even write anymore and when I do, it’s in the worst, most scattered way possible.” I think when you’re a kid, you believe writing will save you from the human condition. As you get older, you realize that writing can make life more livable but that the only cure for the human condition is death.
RK: Are you telling me writing won't save us? You ruined my life a little bit right there. To follow that up; we share similar views on the dangers of hope. Is it all hopeless? Do you place hope in anything today?
MS:How can I redeem this... Yes, Virginia, writing will save you. But it’s not a binary. You don’t scrawl your way through some depraved tome, write the greatest two words in the English language-- THE END-- and then you’re transformed instantly from Lowly Sinner to Hallowed Saint. Writing has saved my ass again and again and again. But it’s more like your life is a leaky boat. Writing is not a brand new boat. But it is a shitload of epoxy and fiberglass. Writing can help you patch that leaky boat enough that it will stop leaking, maybe even enough that it may feel a little bit like a new boat. But writing is not a new boat. There is no new boat. And on the subject of hope... I think the only danger of hope is that it will keep you tethered to this earth, which is to say it will keep you alive. But I think it’s good to have hope, even necessary. I mean, that’s how I feel right now after running and petting my cat and drinking too much coffee.
But if you really want a Super Nintendo for Christmas and you hope and hope and hope all through October/ November/ December and then don’t get one Christmas morning, are you a jackass for hoping? I don’t think so. That hope probably buoyed you up those three months before Christmas. If you force yourself not to hope and then you don’t get a Super Nintendo, well, you still feel disappointment. Maybe not as much, but this life is not about sparing yourself pain and disappointment. This life is about feeling the good feelings-- love, hope, closeness, forgiveness-- with no fear of pain and disappointment. So I guess right now I say yeah, give in to hope, let it flow through your tired body. Do I put hope in anything today? Nope, not really. There’s an infinite list of bad things I hope don’t happen, but there’s not really any positive things I’m wishing for. But then, my life is pretty sweet already.
RK: Okay, now that we’re all depressed about not getting the SNES for Christmas and writing won't save us, let’s talk about how your life maintains its sweetness: the new book, Cold Turkey. First of all, congratulations.
Can you tell us why Cold Turkey is important to you. Who is this book for?
MS: Cold Turkey is actually a great example of what I was discussing earlier-- how writing gives back to you, whether you want it to or not. Cold Turkey is an audiobook about how to quit drinking and stay sober without AA or rehab. I did a little PR session with Audible before the book launched and they coached me how to talk about how I wanted to give back to the community and help people and so on. That’s all bullshit. I had zero desire to write the book and wanted very much NOT to write the book. I agreed to do it for two shitty reasons: because I needed the money and because I selfishly never wanted to have to answer another email from someone in crisis about how to quit drinking. However, once I got into it, I realized both that I had a lot to say on the subject and that I cared deeply-- not just about the subject or my experience of it, but that I cared deeply about anyone and everyone trying to get their shit together. Life is frustrating and sometimes you can convince yourself that you’re a shittier person than you are and then thank God writing proves you wrong.
RK: I made it out of a similar hole and sometimes I struggle with regret and shame. In the movie On The Waterfront, Brando said, “I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.”
It seems you made the best of it, but do you ever feel like your time with drugs and alcohol robbed you of your contention?
MS: Yes and no. We would all love to go back and rewrite our pasts, even those of us who aren’t addicts and alcoholics. And we’ve all read those corny sci-fi stories where someone goes back in time and steps on a butterfly and then Hitler becomes president or whatever. Here’s the thing. Or here’s a couple of things. You can’t go back. I can’t go back. We can’t go back. We can only move forward. You are currently the youngest you will ever be. The only meaningful question is “can I be a contender now?”
Human beings are great at magnifying the negative and obscuring the positive. Maybe you were hungover and missed work on a day during which you would have been hit by a car and paralyzed. We don’t know what could have happened and we can’t know. We obsess about that time we missed hitting the lottery by one measly number… but we instantly forget all the times we should have been run over by taxis, buses, ice cream trucks, etc. It’s useful to recall the bad shit that could have happened to you-- that should have happened to you-- but didn’t.
At this point in my life, I’m not just grateful that I’m sober, I’m also grateful that I was a fuckup. Living as a penniless alcoholic for a long time taught me empathy. And it’s given me a lot of other skills that come in handy from time to time. And I’ve made a career of writing about the mistakes I’ve made... so thank fucking God for those mistakes.
RK: Amen. Thank God for those mistakes. Okay, let’s shift to something more serious: biscuits or cornbread?
MS: Oh man, that’s tough. I think I’m going to go with cornbread. I do love a good biscuit, though. I had English muffins this morning that were handmade by a friend and they were out-of-this-world good.
RK: I agree. A bad biscuit is better than a dried up cornbread, but good cornbread is undefeated. Before we go, I want to give you the floor. What is important to Mishka Shubaly? What’s on your mind?
MS: Nothing cosmic or deep! I need to snake the drain on the sink, I need to change the cat litter, I need to apply for a bunch of grants to keep my head above water here. I guess this is where I plug the new record? I just put out an EP on band camp called “I’ll Be Gone.” People are saying it’s the best record I’ve ever done. You be the judge: https://mishkashubaly.bandcamp.com/album/ill-be-gone
Mishka Shubaly is a bestselling author, a writing teacher, a cult songwriter, a road dog on house arrest, a shipwreck survivor, and a clue on Jeopardy! His most recent work is the audiobook Cold Turkey: How to Quit Drinking by Not Drinking